The following MSN conversation occurred last night while Justin and I were working on the previous Haruki Murakami Is Wrong! entry. As you can see, we aren't some mindlessly insecure, whiny bigots who take pleasure in blindly bashing a famed literary figure just to make ourselves feel better. An earnest and intelligent discourse WAS exchanged between Justin and I prior to posting the entry. Once again, it's profanity-laced, so don't read if you don't want to defile your virgin eyes.
Swifty says:
actually, if some American author of Murakami's generation starts dissing the younger generation in the States, will you give that much shit too?
Justin says:
No man, I could care less about that, hahaha
Justin says:
That shit doesn't concern me, haha
Swifty says:
...
Swifty says:
exactly
Swifty says:
maybe Murakami might be right.
Swifty says:
and the new generation in Japan DOES suck
Justin says:
How?
Justin says:
They've produced some of the greatest visual beauty, music, and art of the millennium
Justin says:
Murakami has produced "The Wind-Up Bird Chronicle."
Justin says:
I rest my case.
Swifty says:
it's entirely subjective.
Justin says:
Do you really want to read "The Elephant Vanishes" over listening to SPEED?
Swifty says:
That's like listening to Spice Girls over a John Grisham book
Justin says:
Spice Girls are still better, you can't dance to John Grisham
Justin says:
You can get laid to Spice Girls, can't do that to John Grisham
Swifty says:
hmm.
Justin says:
How's your part coming?
Swifty says:
I am too indifferent towards the kogyaru to even defend them
Swifty says:
it's Murakami I'm focusing
Swifty says:
it's the inability to accept the new generation that irks me
Swifty says:
but that doesn't mean that the new generation is that damned good
Swifty says:
fuck kogyarus, how different are they compared to the americans who grew up watching MTV?
Swifty says:
oh, right, a more outlandish sense of fashion
Swifty says:
perhaps to western eyes
Swifty says:
so why do i defend them? they all suck.
Justin says:
I think in this whole post, it's pretty much taken for granted that America is a horrible place and anywhere is better than there.
Swifty says:
it's not just America
Swifty says:
i'm not going to beautify and idealize the new generation of Japan
Swifty says:
merely because they are different from us
Justin says:
But dude, that's the thing
Justin says:
They're not different from us
Swifty says:
what the fuck do they have? Kanehara?
Justin says:
That was the point of what I was saying
Justin says:
Why else would I defend them if I didn't identify with them?
Swifty says:
oh
Justin says:
Just like us, they have to deal with
Justin says:
the expectations of people currently in positions of power
Swifty says:
Founder syndrome.
Justin says:
Who fed them lines of bullshit about how to dress, how to think, how to get jobs, etc.
Justin says:
Yeah, except I don't respect them
Justin says:
All my heroes are dead men from like 80 years ago, like I said
Justin says:
Your position might be different, but that's the reasoning behind it
Justin says:
I can relate to kogyaru, I can't relate to Murakami
Justin says:
I've had people say 'sad' and 'disgusted' about things I've done, the way I've tried to live my life
Justin says:
And yeah, writers in the U.S. DO say the same shit
Swifty says:
yeah, but i'm just saying that are the newer generations really worth defending?
Swifty says:
or are we just idealizing them?
Swifty says:
Hm.
Swifty says:
even the people of 80 years ago mean nothing to me. they belong to the past, where the environment made them do things much different from us
Swifty says:
hence 'hardcore'
Swifty says:
I'm too selfish to think myself belonging to any groups. that's why i never gave a shit about movements
Justin says:
Me either, I'm pretty much talking about you and myself in this
Justin says:
I mean, I'm not proscribing anything, I'm just saying we're more creative than people like Murakami
Justin says:
And he knows it
Justin says:
That is the essential point behind it
Swifty says:
but there is a possibility that Murakami's generation do have people more creative than us.
Swifty says:
hmm
Justin says:
Yeah, but who?
Justin says:
Man
Justin says:
No one cares about the people I've just mentioned in this
Justin says:
No one knows what Shirakaba is or who these people are
Justin says:
I'm from the U.S. all right
Justin says:
All I ever hear is like
Justin says:
Fitzgerald
Justin says:
Hemingway
Justin says:
Capote
Justin says:
Carver
Justin says:
No one can think outside of these people
Justin says:
I'm probably the only person who has even been influenced by Akutagawa in like 50 years, outside of Japan
Swifty says:
Yeah, exactly. That's why there might be the US equivalents of those Shirakaba group that you know nothing about
Justin says:
No man
Justin says:
That shit was not underground
Justin says:
They were hell mainstream popular
Justin says:
Mishima signed people's panties in public
Justin says:
The world just doesn't care now because they're not European
Justin says:
If it's not English or American, fuck it, it's nothing
Justin says:
That is the mindset
Justin says:
Even French and Italian writing is ignored
Justin says:
Everyone knows who Hemingway is, no one knows Calvino, Svevo, Gautier, etc.
Swifty says:
that's only because of America's cultural imperialism
Justin says:
Yeah
Swifty says:
over the entire world
Justin says:
That's what I'm saying
Swifty says:
but like i said, those who are living outside U.S. might not necessarily be the best either.
Swifty says:
Kubrick vs Godard
Swifty says:
Fellini vs Kubrick
Swifty says:
or, i dunno, Abbas Kiarostami, Ken Loach vs Wes Anderson, Darren Aronofsky. The Americans aren't weaker than the non-Americans, just that people aren't that used to the more 'exotic' foreign directors.
Justin says:
But dude, again, if you grew up in America, you'd know this
Justin says:
You grew up in Malaysia, like, you had Chinese culture, Malay shit, Western shit from your dad, everything
Justin says:
I had none of this, I mean, no one knows shit in that country
Justin says:
I am just saying, if I didn't have foreign parents and came here, neither would I
Justin says:
I never would have known any of this shit
Swifty says:
Ah, yeah, that's kinda different.
Justin says:
I wouldn't have been able to think outside of those English and American writers
Justin says:
When I say this, I am talking about like PEOPLE WHO WRITE FOR THE NEW YORKER
Justin says:
I know the people that will one day become the staff of that magazine, of Harper's, etc.
Justin says:
I know people that went to Princeton, Harvard, etc., they didn't know shit
Justin says:
They couldn't think outside of that Anglo-American mindset of figures and influences
Swifty says:
Yeah. And they wouldn't bother to know either.
Justin says:
I mean serious, THEY DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT MALAYSIA IS.
Justin says:
I mean THINK about that concept.
Swifty says:
Kinda like when I went to America, and the majority of the people didn't even know where Msia is
Swifty says:
yeah, exactly
Justin says:
Your ENTIRE COUNTRY is irrelevant to that mindset
Justin says:
This is the shit I am saying
Swifty says:
Those fuckers.
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